It’s OK to Not Be OK!

Prefer to read? Here’s a transcription of the video:

Welcome to a DreamVision Seven Radio Networks radio host extravaganza winner. Each year in the spring, we have a radio host contest. For those who’ve always wondered about a radio show, it’s an opportunity to get their feet wet, hosting their own global radio show on Syndicated DreamVision’s Seven Radio Network. Together, let’s welcome these remarkable people whose goal it is to make a difference in people’s lives. To learn more, go to dreamvisionsevenradio.com.

Welcome. I’m so glad you decided to stop by and listen to my show. I’m Anna Gatmon, host of Expensive with Anna Gatmon: Stories of Love Overcoming Fear on Syndicated DreamVision’s Seven Radio Network every Tuesday at 10:00 AM and 10:00 PM Pacific time, and 1:00 AM and 1:00 PM Eastern time. You can listen online, on your mobile devices, in your car, or ask Alexa to learn more about the show. For a full schedule, go to dreamvisionsevenradio.com. DreamVision Seven Radio Network is the media partner of The Omega Institute. You can find me at annagatmon.com. That’s A-N-N-A-G-A-T-M-O-N or on my YouTube channel, Expansive with Anna Gatmon, and on Facebook again, at Expansive with Anna Gatmon where the radio show is posted at the top of the page. And that’s where you can leave me a comment, you can recommend someone as a guest on the show or yourself if you would like to be a guest on the show and tell your story of overcoming fear by choosing love.

Anna: So my guest today is Patti Meyers. Meyer, sorry. Right? It’s Patti Meyer?

Patti: It’s Patti Meyer. Yeah.

Anna: Meyer. Thank you for correcting me. Let me tell you a bit about Patti and why I invited her to the show. So I invited Patty because she has had to deal with severe depression and anxiety as a teenager. And as this show is about sharing stories of love overcoming fear, I really wanted Patti to come on the show and share this story of courage and inspiration so that you know that you are not alone and that it is possible in the darkest time to find hope and to get help.

Anna: So let me first tell you about Patti. Patti has an Associate’s degree in psychology and almost two decades working within operations management. Patti now runs her own company. It’s called BizMagic, Virtual Business Management, where she supports female and non-binary entrepreneurs who feel overwhelmed and need help getting their business humming. Patti and her team create, implement, and teach the tweaks that help her clients make a bigger impact with less stress. You can find out more about Patti at bizmagic.co, and I’ll repeat that at the end. I work with Patti and collaborate with her, and I can attest to her being an amazing virtual business manager. So welcome, Patti, to the Expansive with Anna Gatmon show.

Patti: Thank you so much for having me.

Anna: So can you give us some context to your depression– when it was, how old you were, and for how long it lasted?

Patti: Sure. So, when I was in high school, I was a senior in high school. I had actually just turned 18, and I had kind of always dealt with some anxiety for many years at that point and a little bit of agoraphobia, and the depression just sort of came on pretty heavily at that point. And it lasted at its darkest and heaviest for about six months. During that period of time, I didn’t leave the house and that sort of thing.

Anna: Do you know what triggered the depression?

Patti: You know, I don’t fully know what the trigger was that led me right into that space. I know that we had just moved into a new home at that point that I think in retrospect was a safe space. It was the home my mom was born and raised in, and my grandparents lived downstairs. It was in San Francisco, so it was two flats. And so I think it sort of provided this place that allowed me to really fall apart, I think, which was coming up until that point.

Anna: Okay. So can you describe a bit what your depression, what it looks like so people have an understanding? Because we all say, it’s something that we say, ‘Oh, I’m depressed,’ right? I think that if there’s a very big difference between when we feel down or when we are even, you know, feeling depressed for a week versus to kind of have a meltdown and feel depressed and be anxious for six months. So could you share a bit what it looks like and what it feels like?

Patti: Sure. Yeah. And I agree. I mean, the depression looks different for everybody and there are a lot of symptoms of depression, and so a lot of people can function really well with depression and a lot of people simply can not. And so I had reached a point where I had been dealing with anxiety, by that point, since I was a freshman in high school. And the depression for me in that point reached a point where I just couldn’t get out of bed. I was sad all the time. I didn’t really see a point in existing much. It all felt just too much and too overwhelming for me to try to live. And I didn’t fit in in school and hadn’t for as long as I can remember, probably at that point. And the best that I could do was just exist at a low level. I was unable to go to school any longer and so I went on to homeschool, thanks to my mom and my teachers and things like that. So I pretty much just laid in bed a lot. I was able to shower. Some people have a struggle with basic hygiene and maintenance and things like that, but I didn’t. I did gain a lot of weight during that period, as well, because I wasn’t doing anything. I was just really laying around, and watching movies, and laying in bed, and unable to really interact. I lost touch with all of my friends and just hid, essentially, and just felt lost.

Anna: And can you share a bit about your family? It sounds like your mother was supportive of you in a sense that she supported you to homeschool, but was she concerned about what was going on? Did you seek professional help?

Patti: Yeah, so, she was definitely concerned about what was happening and, you know, I don’t think it was a surprise because I had been struggling for so long with anxiety and I think in a lot of ways that I had actually probably struggled with depression since I was a child. And I don’t think I knew what that meant or what that was or what that looked like. And I think until it really weighed down and hit me to that extent that I fully understood that. But when I really went into that space, she took it upon herself to get in contact with my counselor at school, to talk to her, and then meet with all of my teachers to let them know that I was unable to come into school. And she supported me in that process. And then of course sent me to therapy, and that’s where I was able to get medication actually for it. That was the first time I had taken medication for anything in that capacity with depression. And so she supported me through all of that, and that was the one thing I would leave the house for- was to go to therapy so that I could continue getting my medication at that point.

And were the teachers helping you? I mean were you getting any schooling? I mean, were you able even to study while being depressed?

Patti: I don’t remember. I don’t remember a lot about that part of it. Presumably, it was. I remember my brother, he was two years younger than me, and he also went to my high school, and so he would bring home my homework and things like that. I know one of my teachers refused and so that made it so I couldn’t graduate on time. But the other teachers all were pretty understanding and supportive of the situation I was in, and they did the best they could to help me to be successful and be educated from home during that time.

Anna: So you’ve talked about your mom and the brother. Was your father in the picture? Do you have other siblings?

Patti: Yeah, so I do. I had at that period in my life– So I have three brothers, but I was living with two at that point. And my father was not in the picture. He lived in San Francisco, and actually, during that period, he was in prison, so he was not in the picture at all for me.

Anna: So you didn’t have any contact with him? Was it so he wasn’t even aware of what you were going through?

Patti: So he molested me when I was a child for a very long time, and that’s part of what led to that part in myself and my dealing with anxiety and depression. And so I had contact with him for a little while in my teenage years, mostly because of my own struggles with the guilt of him being in prison because of the molestation and things like that. But by that point, I had chosen not to keep in contact with him any longer. My mom had supported us doing whatever we felt like we wanted to do, whether we wanted to have contact with him when he would call us from prison or if we chose not to. So at that point, I had chosen not to, so I don’t really know what he knew. I didn’t really give much thought to him in that moment, honestly.

Anna: Yeah. Yeah. Just so that we have context– what age did he go into prison? So what age did the molestation come out in relation to you having your depression at age 18?

Patti: Yeah, so my parents got divorced when I was about 8 or 9, and at that point, he moved out and the molestation stopped at that point and had been going on since I was one and a half. So it went on throughout the majority of my childhood. And so at that point, things kind of shifted for me because I think as I had this freedom to have these feelings and these emotions, and also finally feel safe from him, I started to kind of unravel a bit, so to speak and dealt with a lot of anger at that point. And again, I think I was depressed during that period as well. But really it came out as a lot of anger and it all happened very quickly, as soon as it came out– it actually didn’t come out for another couple of years past that point– so I was about nine or, I was about 10 or 11, I guess when I finally understood what had happened to me. Because I didn’t understand. I knew that it didn’t feel right, but I didn’t know what it was and didn’t have a name for it. So when I finally had that understanding, and I just reached a point where I couldn’t, I wasn’t functioning anymore, I was wanting to die and threatening to kill myself and was very violent, that it finally came out and I told my mom what had happened. And then at that point, we went through the whole process of going to jail, and I went into a psychiatric hospital for about a month so that I could get some help because I was pretty unable to function in any way at that point.

Anna: Wow. Pretty rough, huh?

Patti: It was, it was, but, you know, I mean, I think the benefit of it coming out as young as it did, for me, enabled me to start learning at a really young age how to get in touch with my feelings in a different way. I mean, I was in therapy since I was 10 at that point, so I really had gotten a grasp of– through those years leading up to my depression when I was 18– how to understand what was happening inside of myself. And I kind of had to deal with it almost, right? So how to feel it was bubbling up and what was happening. And I think part of the depression came because I had been in a hospital for a little while because of my anger. I think that the anger made me afraid. So when I would feel that, I would shut down, and I think that until I was in a position of when I was a little bit older to deal with more of that anger, that’s kind of part of what happened. I just shut down because it’s so overwhelming to deal with these emotions when they arise. I mean, life is very difficult sometimes. And so, you know, but, but it did put me, I think, in a better place then and gave me some privilege that a lot of people didn’t have to be able to deal with and understand their own feelings and work through some of that stuff.

Anna: Did you feel that when you were in– when you went in for it, a psychiatric treatment, for a month. Did you get support? Did you feel that you got support at that time? Did they help you in any way? Did they accept your anger or were they just trying to medicate you to calm you, like what was going on then?

Patti: There was no medication. They did not medicate me at all. There were other kids in the ward that did have medication, but I was not one of them. They did, there was group therapy, There was one-on-one therapy, it was full inpatient. So, you know, I had to do school, I had to go to school while I was in there as well through their programs and things like that. So I did receive a lot of help, for me to be perfectly honest. I remember being in there and kind of being this place where I thought, I just have to stuff it down because I want to get out of here, right? I was 11 years old and in a psychiatric hospital where there were kids kind of screaming and being dragged to the– kicking and screaming– to the padded room, and all of that, that stuff. And so, all I knew was that I was definitely better off than some of these kids that were there because I wasn’t at the level they were, and I just wanted to get out. So I really just sort of said what I needed to say and took a lot of notes in my head, I think, of how to be what they wanted to see so that I could leave and take whatever I was learning in these sessions with me to kind of almost take care of myself and learn how to analyze myself.

Anna: Yeah. Wow. And so then you came out of there and then you were able to function and be school again until you were 18, and you moved to the house that your mom had grown up in, and then you felt a safety to have depression or to have a meltdown again, or to be depressed. Is that correct?

Patti: Right. Yeah. Yeah. When I was a freshman in high school, I started having anxiety for the first time. So it was a little bit before the depression happened, and during that period, I had my first panic attack and we went to the emergency room because I had a lump in my throat and I thought I was choking on something, there was something in my throat. And they told me there was nothing there and that I was having a panic attack. And so that was kind of my first introduction to that. And the lump in my throat just didn’t go away at that point. So I just lived with it. I learned to live with it, and I would chew my food a thousand times and, you know, so that I would feel safe swallowing and things like that. So that kind of happened throughout high school leading up to the depression as well. So there was this underlying anxiety that was also happening all leading until that depression occurred.

Anna: Yeah. I mean, it sounds like you’re comfortable today talking about all of this, right? I’m assuming that you’ve done a lot of work in order to be able to speak about it so openly.

Patti: Yeah. I’ve done a lot of work with it. I’ve, you know, I’ve done a lot of therapy and I’ve done a lot of work myself with it taking, doing a lot of meditation, doing a lot of reading of self-help things, as well as doing some medicine journeys with certain substances and things like that. So, you know, I’ve really been able to look at my life and my experiences in a very different way that have– and when I feel, when I feel anxious or depressed, I’m able to recognize it very quickly and change the narrative that’s happening in my head instead of going down that road in that direction, quite in the same way. I feel it when it’s coming, I understand when it’s coming and I quickly act to keep that from happening, but I’ve become very comfortable in talking about it because I feel like it’s important for other people to learn from my experiences. You know, we all walk around kind of thinking that we’re crazy or we’re, we’re broken or there’s something wrong with us. And I think that so many people struggle with depression and anxiety that we’re so not alone in this. And so the more that we can be comfortable sharing our stories and talking about them, as varied as they are, right? I mean, it’s a little bit of a crazy story, and that’s only the tip of the iceberg of all this stuff I’ve shared. So it’s really, we all have these different journeys. And I think that understanding that no matter what that path is for you to get to a point where you’re feeling overwhelmed, there’s always somebody else that identifies with that and can understand that and that you’re not broken and that it is possible to be okay again.

Anna: Yeah, I mean, that’s a lot of hope that you’re giving people in this. It’s really important, always, but at this time, and I want to get into all the work that you did, the meditation and the medicine work and all of that. There’s a saying, and I’m paraphrasing it, that when you meet someone they’re fighting a battle you know nothing about, and it’s a beautiful, it’s like, I’m, I’m tearing up. It’s like we see people and we make so much assumptions about them and you know, their personality, and we’re each struggling with something that others have no clue about. And we often judge people or admire people based on what we’re assuming that they’re living through or going through, or how they look, or money they have, or career and success. they have, whatever measurements we use, but each one in one way or another is fighting a battle that we know nothing about. And to know that is to know that, even if we don’t know what their story is and what they’re battling, that we’re not alone. Right? Like you share.

Patti: Yeah. It’s very true. I mean, that’s one of the things I’ve learned pretty strongly and in sharing about this with other people and mostly in reaching out for help for myself through my communities, is how many people are dealing with depression and anxiety all the time.

Anna: And we’ve had these dramas and traumas and in PTSD responses to them before this COVID-19 world pandemic, right? And before ecological crisis and before the financial meltdown and the social upheaval. Right? So now we’re where we need to add that to our personal stories, and suddenly it’s compounded, there’s so much more stress, so much more anxiety, so much more depression, and so many more external reasons to be depressed, to kind of give up, to feel forsaken, to feel lost. Right?

Patti: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that some people, it can put people in a position where they didn’t even know they had some of these things happening until they’re sort of locked up with them. We live in a world that’s full of distractions. It’s full of the ability for us to hide from or just to be unaware of the things that are happening inside of us. And so I think that being put in this position during COVID-19 and this whole pandemic has really put people in a position where they kind of have to hear themselves a little bit, and they’re stuck with less distractions and less being out and about. And so I think that can easily put people in more of a place where they can be affected more strongly by depression and anxiety.

Anna: So when we come back, we’ll talk about what the tipping point was for you that began your journey of healing and how this pandemic can also be an opportunity for people in the midst of the darkest moment can be an opportunity to work through whatever challenges that people are working through. We’ll be right back.

COMMERCIAL BREAK: Ever wonder what it’s like to have your own radio show? Well wonder no longer, because you can dip into the radio airwaves by being host for the day on Syndicated DreamVision Seven Radio Network. It’s a fabulous way to get your radio feet wet. It’s an opportunity to market your business, modality, or book. Have a guest, mention a sponsor, and take callers. Or, you may want to facilitate a lesson by going solo. It’s up to you. Listeners can be online, mobile in cars with Bluetooth, or listen through Amazon’s echo by asking Alexa, “play Dreamvision Seven Radio Network.” For more details, go to dreamvisionsevenradio.com and click on “host for the day.”

Do you have questions about your health? Are you wondering about alternatives? Do you ever wish you could have five minutes with a doctor? You can trust someone who is an internationally recognized authority in the field of natural medicine, meet award-winning doctor, naturopath and bestselling author of The Magnesium Miracle, Carolyn Dean MD&D. Hear a wealth of information designed to empower listeners and callers to discover how to improve health, vitality, and wellbeing through a variety of safe strategies and nutritional options. Dr. Carolyn Dean Live shows can be heard every Monday 7:00 to 9:00 AM Eastern with weekly live shows, 7:00 to 9:00 PM Eastern time on Syndicated Dreamvision Seven Radio Network.

Are you ready to shed those fearful, worrisome thoughts and live a more joy-filled life? From the heart of her critically acclaimed book, Starving Your Fears, author and PhD. Joyce Logan is passionate about helping you to live the life you desire with wisdom, empathy, and laughter Join Dr. Joyce on Fridays at 7:00 AM and 7:00 PM Eastern time on Syndicated Dreamvision, Seven Radio Network. Starving Your Fears is all about helping each other to stop going through life white-knuckled and hanging on for dear life. As we deal with so many of life’s stressors, take the journey with Joyce now and learn how to go from panic to peace in a flash.

Anna: Okay. Hello, everybody. We’re back. Anna Gatmon here, Expansive with Anna Gatmon: Stories of Love Overcoming Fear. I am here with Patti Meyer, who is sharing her personal story of love overcoming fear of having the courage to deal with depression and anxiety and a traumatic childhood and is here to give us each one of us, me and you and herself, and all of us, the hope that in the darkest moment, there was hope and there is help so that we can become more whole and heal and share our gifts and our blessings with the people around us and with the world. So Patti, let’s talk about the tipping point. What was the moment or the event? You had said that you go to therapy, you would go with when you were in the depression, when you were 18, you would go to therapy and that was the one thing you would do outside of the house, but was there a specific tipping event that began your transformation coming out of depression?

Patti: Yeah, absolutely. So I had, before I had gotten into this space, and throughout high school, I had a really close friend of mine who we were, you know, high school best friends and we were inseparable. And we had fallen out as she had dropped out of school in our junior year. And so she reached out to me and we haven’t talked in quite a while. She didn’t even know what I was going through, where I was at. And she reached out to me because her father was in the hospital and she needed me. And so I left the house. So that was the other moment. The first moment I had left the house outside of having to go to therapy at that point. And I got on a bus by myself and that was in San Francisco, and took the bus to the hospital to be there with her. And so at that point, I, you know, we caught up and I told her everything and she came to my house with me that evening. And she ended up spending the night and just talking and had always understood me in a way that nobody else had. And she just kinda got it. And she started showing up for me the way that nobody else had been able to, but also, I don’t think in a way that I had let anybody else be able to. And yeah, so together we started working through it and we would go for small walks around the block and leave it at that. And then hang out, you know, we just, we spent a lot of time together. And so she sort of opened up that space and I was ready, I think, to be out of it.

Patti: I mean, it’s a very difficult space to be in. By that point, I had counted the cracks in my ceilings more times than, you know, I knew exactly every chip in my paint, in my bedroom and crack on my ceiling because I would just lay there day after day. And there is a feeling. So I think I was ready in a lot of ways to kind of help pull myself out of that. And I think her reaching out her hand to do that, abled me to have somebody to hold onto and to trust. And so it allowed me to start going out into the world, which I was terrified of at that point. I was, I dealt with a lot of, I’ve always struggled with my weight. And so I worried about a lot of judgment about my body and just me as a human existing and all the thoughts that everybody would have about how crummy of a person I was and how worthless I was, you know, all these things that I had created for myself. And so to be able to start going back out into that very terrifying world that I had built up with her by my side. And, you know, then we’d go to a movie and that would be the furthest. And so by this point, she had her license, I believe and so we were able to start going out a little bit further and a little bit further and things started getting better. But it was really, it took a lot of work and a lot of patience of her coming with me every step of the way and taking those very small steps, like to understand that walking around the block was one of the most challenging things I could possibly fathom at that point and to just be patient with me while we did that.

Patti: And then went and sat at the cafe down the street to have a sandwich and a cup of coffee or something. And so that really made a huge difference for me. And then a little bit after that, that summer where I wasn’t, again, I didn’t graduate. So, because of the one teacher who wouldn’t let me do the summer school or to finish, I wasn’t able to graduate because of the one teacher who didn’t allow me to do the homeschooling. So I had to go to summer school at a different school that was not my own to graduate, and I was terrified. But during that period, my grandfather got really sick, and he was dying. And I remember that one of the things that he had wanted for me and that he said was that he really wanted me to graduate high school. And that was really important for him, for me to do this. And so I really loved him and I had a special relationship with him. I didn’t get to get close to him until I was older because I didn’t grow up near him in San Francisco, but it meant everything to me. And so at that point, I pushed myself to get my license so I could drive to the school and be around all these strangers and go to school and do this. So it kind of, at that point, was a progression and then it just kept getting better and better. And I just kept pushing and pushing to just take a deep breath in and step out into the world a little bit further, a little bit further.

Anna: Wow, beautiful. So I want to speak about the lens from which, you know, the expansive teachings are in and the show, which is stories of love overcoming fear. And what I hear is the love of your grandfather. It’s like something in his caring for you. You see, for him, for you to finish high school, he cared for you and you did too to do that. And I had the same thing with my teenage son who didn’t want to finish high school and he got his GED, but there’s something in the care and the love that he wanted something for you, something better and bigger for you, that somehow you gave back and said, ‘I want to do this for him. He wants to do it for me and I’ll do it for him.’ And you went to get a driver’s license. That’s hard, and that’s stress-provoking, right? And anxiety-provoking. And then finishing that class was this teacher who, you know, it doesn’t sound like a very compassionate and understanding person.

Anna: Those were the things for me, when I listened to your story, it’s those moments of love that allow you to take a step away from the depression and feeling just awful about yourself.

Patti: Yeah. And I think also the love of my friendship, her name is Rosemary, and you know, the love of her coming in and understanding and coming from a difficult path in herself and her life that she was able to understand. She was somebody that I was able to feel broken with and safe being broken with. And I think that love that was there also enabled me to do that and to say, ‘You know what, I trust this person and I love this person and let’s together, do this and support each other as each other up.’

Anna: Yeah. Yeah. It is, it’s the love. And it’s interesting because she asking for help, she wanted your love to support her. Right. And so you showed up for her, you were willing and all that you were going through your depression and anxiety, you were willing to go and support her. And that’s what the trigger is. So love actually called you out from where — I mean, that’s how I’m seeing it.

Patti: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I, I left the house for her. She needed me. That’s all that mattered to me at that point. Yeah.

Anna: Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. And so I talk often about these two consciousnesses, the consciousness of fear and isolation and depression comes there. And then there’s the consciousness of interdependence and interconnection and love. And healing and wholeness reside in the consciousness of we’re here for each other. We love ourselves. We care for somebody else. We’re here to make the world a better place. And then the place that we go to, and, you know, in your case, and in all of our cases, we go into this consciousness of separation, we feel forsaken, we feel broken, we feel alone. We don’t do it on purpose. We’re just born into this consciousness. And then it goes bigger into politics. You know, feeling like it’s just the bottom line, the money’s important. It’s not, people are not important. That’s a consciousness of separation and of fear. And, your story is a story of being in that place, feeling isolated and broken. And yet these droplets of love or sparks of love got you out of it. So what happened after that?

Patti: So after that, I continued on kind of into the world a little bit. I got my first job at that period. I did not go to college because of the struggles I had with school. I cut school a lot from eighth grade onward being around all those people was always really difficult for me. And so it was really hard for me to be in classes. And so I chose not to be in those classes. It’s created a lot of challenges for me, for sure, during my educational life. But so I decided not to continue on to college right away, and I got a job at a retail store that was opening. And, during that period– and during all of this, I should say as well, you know, I still had this lump in my throat, this anxiety that I had just learned to live with since I was a freshman. And it was just a part of things as, as well as I think it’s important to say that I dealt with a lot of suicidal thoughts during all of this, these times. And a few moments where I really went down these spaces of sitting on the floor with every pill bottle I could find in a house in front of me and just ready to go down that road. And so I want to be clear in saying that it’s not some magic thing that just goes away and changes. It’s all part of it. And so when I started working, I met some really amazing people and some people that are still in my life to this day and that have led to people that are in my life.

Patti: I mean, really life-changing. It’s this, this first job, but the people I met there and kind of during that period of time, my brothers, as well as these friends that I started working with, I was introduced a little bit more into different kinds of medicine work. And so I started going down that road a little bit. So I weaned myself off of the antidepressants. I was on the antidepressants during the period, right. I was in a house and then I weaned myself off. And, I also want to say that that’s not something that you should do without your doctor’s help, because I also tried that once I was feeling good again, and I stopped taking them, and that was horrible. So, yeah, once I weaned myself off of the antidepressants and all of that and I started interacting and I ended up moving out of my mom’s house and I moved in with these friends of mine. We started doing a lot of this work together, and I was really honest with them and they understood where I was coming from in my path. And so we would explore with–

Anna: So, so can I just, I want it to talk about the medicine work when we come back, but I want you first to just share with me, because I have this image of you on the floor with all these bottles of pills. What, what was it there so people can know of, it gives them hope. What was it there that you didn’t take them? What happened there, that you had all these feelings that were suicidal and these moments where you were sitting there, what stopped you from doing that?

Patti: I, you know, I don’t know, honestly, I mean, there’s, I’d always looked at it from this point of, I’m not, I’m too afraid to actually do it, but I don’t know what that was. And I think that there was more of my connection to my family and the love that I had for being alive and knowing that there is maybe some possibility that I could get out of this, that stopped me from going that route. Um, many times that I had been down those roads and, you know, for me in those moments, they actually felt like failures. I didn’t go through with it, which is so scary to think about in retrospect. But, but now I understand that I think it was that I had enough to hold on to that I found enough in myself to hold on to that. I wanted to have hope for something more than what was at the bottom of all of these bottles that would take me away from here.

Anna: Yeah. Yeah. So it sounds like to always know that even if you feel at your worst, reach out to someone. Call. We have on the page, we have some numbers to call some hotline numbers to call that we’ve put together for you. But to always think, reach out to the one person that can help you or call someone because when you’re not in a depressed state, you want to live and you want to be part of this world. So take the first step and ask for help from someone. So thank you, Patti, we’ll be back in a moment and we’ll continue.

COMMERCIAL BREAK: Looking for a fun and relaxing getaway? Omega Rest & Rejuvenation Retreats are a great way to unwind and renew your spirit. You can stretch your body, quiet your mind, and do as much or as little as you choose. Join us in May and we’ll waive the daily fees. Located in Rhinebeck, in New York’s beautiful Hudson Valley, Omega’s natural environment and quiet pace allow for extraordinary experiences to unfold. Learn more at eomega.org or call (877) 944-2002 that’s (877) 944-2002.

Delight your kids with an enchanting journey by reading The Paper Doll Kids children’s book by Deborah and Janine Sullivan. There’s even a catchy tune– Kids for Love song produced by Bob Sherwood and sung by kids just like yours. This story weaves around seven paper dolls flying around the world, doing good deeds. As they bring important attention to our endangered animal friends, there’s even a magical ring with a universal message. Kids become interested in service projects, action through compassion, and planting seeds that nurture positive change. The Paper Doll Kids and Kids for Love song are a production of the Kids for Love project. Get the book now on Amazon Kindle and the song on iTunes.

After narrowly surviving the attack on Sandy Hook Elementary, first-grade teacher, Caitlin Roy Develles was left searching for answers that would never come. Eventually, she chose to focus on questions that could be answered. How do I make sure this tragedy doesn’t define us? How do we get our control back? Those two questions led her to found the 501 C3 nonprofit organization Classes for Classes. When gifts poured into their classroom, she decided they would help someone else by paying it forward and being kind. This developed into a social network, which allows K-8 classrooms to connect so that every student in the United States can learn these crucial lessons. Classes for Classes’ mission is to build students’ social-emotional intelligence by connecting them to care. All C for C projects are crowdfunded. Any teacher in the U S can visit classes for classes4classes.org. That’s classes,the number four, classes.org. Sign up today.

Anna: Okay. We are back with Patti Meyer on Stories of Love Overcoming Fear. In the last segment, Patti was sharing with us the tipping points and the different events, the moments of love, where her friend needed help and she came and helped her. And when her grandfather wanted her to finish high school, so for him, she finished high school, and these moments of deep love that allowed you to–and you said, it’s not an easy journey, it’s not magical– but to come out of the deep depression that you were experiencing. And so, you began sharing that you did work with medicine and what’s called medicine work, which is really work with also called sacred plants. Michael Polen has brought it out into the open these days with his book. I think it’s called Change of Mind or Change Your Mind, something like that. But there’s also research these days that is funded–that there’s research that is funding how powerful MDMA or mushrooms can be in the process of PTSD, depression and dealing with cancer. And so in this realization that we cannot win the war on drugs, and we’re not going to make them totally legal, there is research that’s going into this. And that’s a wonderful thing because it can really be a lifesaver to do this work. And so please share your experience and how that helped you become further, more whole and heal more.

Patti: Yeah, absolutely. So I was lucky to be in a position whereI was with other conscious people. So we, you know, and I’ll admit that we did take things and, you know, I was in my early twenties at that point. So there were fun and games with them, but there was more than that. Typically we would take, most frequently MDMA or silicide mushrooms. And we have a lot of conversations. We sat together a lot and we shared a lot of ourselves and doing this work. And the very first time– I also did some of this with my brothers– and I had some really healing experiences with our relationship with them, which had been very challenging throughout, you know, going through this period of, especially for my younger brother, losing his father and not really understanding cause he was too young to understand why. And so us being able to kind of cure some of the challenges because it allowed us to open ourselves up and speak in a way that was more pure and was more real without all of the feelings and the fear that was there. And for me, with my anxiety and my agoraphobia more specifically, the very first time that I took MDMA, I had this moment where I realized that nobody cares and it wasn’t in a way that like, nobody cares about me, but it was in a way that the fear that I had of people judging me constantly, and everybody watching me and watching my weight and watching just my existence, that to me, was worthless at this point, wasn’t real. That we are all wandering around in the space of believing and focusing on ourselves and what we’re dealing with and worrying about other people’s judgments and other people’s words and our own brokenness and that sort of thing that nobody’s thinking about everybody else in that way. And that as I’m walking down the street focusing on myself, everybody else is walking down the street focusing on themselves, you know, and so it really freed me from this prison I had put myself in where I couldn’t be myself and I couldn’t exist in this world in a safe space because of everybody else, but that just wasn’t real anymore.

Patti: And it blew my mind and it changed everything for me. And so I continued to have these kinds of experiences where I would sit, and I also did a lot of work with these friends that I was with– touch work, just where they would (because it was really difficult because of the molestation for me to be touched in any way, even somebody just putting their hand on my leg, it would be very uncomfortable for me), so they would just sit with me with their hand on my leg and it was okay. And so we did a lot of work like that and having these conversations and being able to go deep and create these safe spaces in these vulnerable spaces with other humans that understood and I felt safe with this. It changed everything for me. And being able to look at everything from a different perspective that I wasn’t able to achieve when I was present with all of the negative talk and the judgment constantly in my head, it allowed me to look at myself and my life from a different perspective. And that, that made a difference.

Patti: And it was during that period that the lump in my throat that I had lived with just went away at some point. And I don’t even know when it just wasn’t there anymore, and it was remarkable.

Anna: Wow. So how would you describe differently the touch work, the bodywork and the medicine work versus the therapy work, the talking therapy work that you did earlier on? Or were you still doing therapy in that together with all of this?

Patti: So, no, I didn’t. I’ve done therapy on and off throughout my life. I’ve reached a point where I go to therapy when I feel the need for it. I pay attention and go when it’s time. But during that period, I was not, that was my therapy. And it’s very different because it, as I said, I mean, the main thing was, it was for me being able, it was, it was being vulnerable with other people that I trusted. Where you can trust the therapist, but you don’t have that same understanding. You also don’t get to know them and you don’t get to go as deep with them. And so for me, in that sense, that was difficult. And it allowed me to go a little bit deeper, but like I said, it also lowered that judgmental mind that is always there even in therapy, even when you’re talking and just enabled me to be more open and in touch with myself.

Anna: Right. There’s the authority, the therapist is compassionate as they are. They’re– they got it together somehow. And when you’re with peers, then you’re all in this together. Right?

Patti: Right.

Anna: Yeah. So, listen, in, in the time that remains, let’s fast forward to today and hear how you’re doing. If you could give us like a brief, like from then till today, how you’ve been doing, and then we’ll talk a bit about your work and the wonderful work that you do in the world. So first, just about what happened from then, till here today.

Patti: Yeah. So I, you know, continued to do that kind of work. And when I stopped doing that work, I have periodically gone back to therapy as needed and continued to do, what’s really important to me has always been to be very careful with the people that I surround myself with and to always be around people who hold me up and that I feel safe sharing anything and everything with. So that, and that also feels like safe sharing. So being able to kind of go down that road and continue on my life with peers that I feel safe sharing with and that I can heal with together and that we’re always on a path to better ourselves, has made all the difference for me. So I’ve continued doing that. I have had other periods of anxiety. I had a really difficult debilitating period of anxiety and through some cognitive behavioral therapy, I came out of that.

Patti: A lot of work moving through that. And until I reached a point where I’ve taken care of myself and I moved out to Texas to be near my family because everybody’s left San Francisco. And I also, again, recently struggled with depression and anxiety and am currently on medication for that. And it’s, that’s something I think I’ll be on forever, but I know that for right now, it’s, it is something that I need to be doing. And I think that’s important for people to understand, too, that, it’s not a bad thing. You know, there’s stigma around that and it doesn’t mean you have to be on it forever, and it doesn’t mean you should immediately turn to it. But I think that there are moments where it is necessary for certain people. And so I think that it’s okay for that to be the case. So yeah, so I am just kind of, you know, keeping going, trying to stay ahead of it all. And you know, it, like I said, it doesn’t always go away forever, but I’m happy and I’m living life and I have a successful business, that I love, and I work with really amazing women. And yeah, I’m really grateful and happy for where I’m at and that I’ve continued pushing through.

Anna: Yeah. So I want to hear about your business a bit more in the few minutes that we have left, but what I hear in what you share, Patti is, again, it’s love. It’s self-love, self-care. That is what helps you to overcome. It sounds like you live with it, you go to therapy, you have an anxiety, you take medication, whatever there is, and you also have good things in your life, but it’s the love today. It’s your self-love and self-care that allows you to overcome the fear of the separation and the spiraling down to the place of feeling broken. Right?

Patti: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Self-love has been one of the biggest, biggest hurdles and biggest rewards through all of this in learning how to love myself and that I am worth loving. You know, that’s hard when you’re growing up in trauma.

Anna: Definitely. Yeah. And that could be like a whole show, huh? About how do you learn to love yourself when you haven’t been taught that, and they don’t teach that in school. Right? So tell us a bit about your business. And I know you’ve worked with amazing women. I’ve met some of them, very unique, each one of them and what they do. So tell me who you work with and what you do.

Patti: Yeah. So I tend to work with women, female entrepreneurs, non-binary entrepreneurs who, are in the early to mid-stages of their business, and I do all the backend stuff. And so, what’s really important to me is to help other people, and I’m doing that through my work. So, everybody who I work with, they’re all doing something to better the world and to help other people in some capacity. And so I feel that my way of helping in the world is to help them get to those people and have a website that shows that and marketing and just all of it, and to really show up in the world that is their best to help them with people they can. So that’s, that’s kind of what I do is I help manage people’s businesses in that way.

Anna: Yeah. And so I’m, I, we can say I’m one of your clients, and so you helped me.

Patti: You are.

Yeah, I am. And I love working with you. And so you, so there’s two levels. One is all of the technical stuff that you know how to do, you know, if it’s social media or if it’s a website or if it’s anything technical online– booking podcasts for me when I do my own interview, when I’m a guest. But there’s also something else that you do, which is you’re really good at researching. So you love techie stuff and you love new platforms and you absolutely, you also are really good at researching and very quickly finding what’s needed. Cause you can’t know it all, but what’s important is to know how to find the information, right?

Patti: Yeah, absolutely. And, also strategy with my clients. That’s a really big part of it as well as strategizing parts of their business and how to be successful in what they’re doing as well.

Anna: Yeah. Wonderful. And because you have a degree, you have an Associate’s degree in psychology and you have and everything that you’ve gone through. So I find that I get to talk with you also about my fears and my concerns in my not knowing what to do next or all of that. You bring that to your business as well. Do you do it with other clients?

Patti: I do. Yeah. I do it in all aspects of my life because I love it. I mean, like I said, it’s so important for people to know they’re not broken, they’re not alone. And that there’s other people out there to support them, no matter what it is, if it’s serious moments in your life or just in your business.

Anna: Yeah. Well, it is wonderful. So if you,, so first of all, if you need any support– is it okay that I do a pitch for you here?

Patti: Absolutely. Please. Thank you.

Anna: If you need any technical support, we’re all sheltering in place or going in and out of shelter in place. And if you need any support online to transfer your business or to grow your business, Patti is a wizard and that’s why her company is called BizMagic. And you can find her in BizMagic– is it BizMagic.co ?

Patti: Correct. Yes.

So, CO. So you can find her there. And if you had to give like a final, final tip, final word of encouragement, final hole for someone at whatever level they’re at, of feeling, if it’s a lot, you know, really depressed or just kind of lost now with everything going on, what would be the thing that you would invite them or ask them to do in order to take the first step to healing and getting support?

Patti: The very first thing I would say is to be okay with not being okay. It is okay to be where you’re at and to feel what you’re feeling and it doesn’t make you broken and it doesn’t make it bad or you bad. Like that saved me– is knowing it’s okay to be not okay. And then research depression and anxiety. Learn about it so that it’s normalized for you, and then ask for help to anybody that you trust or anybody who you feel could help you in some way. But first, start by being okay with being where you’re at.

Anna: Wonderful, that is such wonderful advice because usually, like I would think of reach out to someone, do something. And sometimes we don’t have the strength to do that because we feel so embarrassed and shame about how you feel, and there’s a reason for it. My situation is okay, why should I feel so bad? But you’re saying the first step is: be okay with being where you’re at. That is beautiful. So thank you, Patti, for being on our show, it’s been a pleasure to be talking to you.

Patti: Thank you so much for having me.

Anna: And when you’re listening to this, share this with others who you feel might need the support, the help, and the inspiration. This is Anna Gatmon from Expansive with Anna Gatmon: Stories of Love Overcoming Fear on Syndicated Dreamvision Seven Radio Network every Tuesday at 10:00 AM and 10:00 PM Pacific time, which is 1:00 AM and 1:00 PM Eastern time. Blessings.

This is Dreamvision Seven Radio Network uniting mankind with universal love. Our shows are created from the heart, bringing each listener to a place of divine enlightenment. Breathe, relax, and enjoy. Let life flow.